Artist, visionary, Icke illustrator, produces a new apt tarot pack in part
Worth meditating on
http://www.neilhague.com/tarot.htm  

--Last edited by dh on 2008-04-30 00:05:18 --

Neil's cards are very interesting but I believe he is profoundly mistaken to use the Twelve Stars of the EU Flag in this way (click on link below).



http://www.neilhague.com/artwork/devil.jpg

Few people know it but I swear to you it's true, those Twelve Stars always remain twelve and do not increase in number with new member states. And the reason why is this:

The Twelve Stars on the field of Blue are the Twelve Stars seen on the Halo around the head of Our Lady, Mother Mary, and the blue the colour of the Universe in the background.




"On December 8, 1955, on the Catholic Feast of The Immaculate Conception of Mary Our Co-redeemer, the European Ministers' delegates officially adopted the European flag, twelve stars on a blue background, designed by Arsene Heitz, who, today, is an octogenarian artist in Strasbourg."

"Recently Heitz revealed to a French magazine the reason for his inspiration. According to the artist, he thought of the twelve stars in a circle on a blue background, exactly the way it is represented in traditional iconography of this image of the Immaculate Conception. A devotee of the Virgin Mary, Heitz never misses praying a daily Rosary. Heitz noticed the words of the Apocalypse, "And there appeared a great wonder in Heaven; a woman clothed with sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars," Revelation 12:1. As a devout Catholic, he applies this to Mary, whom Catholics worship."

"A former secretary-general of the Council of Europe, Leon Marchal, affirmed that the stars are those of 'the woman of the Apocalypse.' Enthusiastically he explained, "It's wonderful that we have gotten back to the Introit of the new Mass of the Assumption." It's the corona stellarum duodecim (the crown of the twelve stars) of the 'woman of the Apocalypse'. The Catholic Church has always claimed that she represents the Virgin Mary, 'the mother of God.' This means that the European flag is a Catholic flag."

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/226.marysstars.html

In the Hindu religion this is the Paramatman Light of Compassion, in Tibetan Buddhism this is Tara, the highest of all the Bodhisattvas, a female Buddha whence came all the other Buddhas!



The Twelve Stars are not satanic, they symbolise the victory of the Divine over evil . What has happened is that satanic forces are trying to imprison & control the Divine as they are Humanity. Their time to do this is nearly up. The Woman of the Apocalypse will ride (and control) the Beast.  

--Last edited by greengorilla on 2008-05-28 01:17:27 --

They could also represent the twelve apostles, but Satanists use these symbols in mockery of divinity.  

--Last edited by orgonegal on 2008-05-28 01:15:22 --

Umm. I suspect its the bifold path of manifest change. Aw, I hate to change! But it's a choice. Either the totalitarian state with us all prisoners and tortured and put to death, whether you consider it Nazi or Communist in derivation. That's all much the same thing, imho. Or the other path that believes in nothing that's given us. I.e. the proper path to freedom. Which I think Neil Hague delineates, somehow

Neil's cards are colourful but his use of the symbol of the twelve stars is mistaken. They are not satanic symbols but symbols of the Divine.

The way they are represented, however, could be interpreted as being under, as you suggest OG, the (temporary) control of a mocking Satan. But most people wouldn't see that because most of them don't know where the Twelve Golden Stars originate from. I wonder if Neil realises himself?

Symbols are symbols but they do have psychic power and power over tribalistic thinking. So they need to be handled with respect and certainly not carelessly. Finally, we must go beyond all tribalistic thinking to a system of life which is non-exploitative, based on the Priceless Quality of love and compassion for all life. And that means moving beyond usury and capital ... which to all purposes means a moneyless mode of production.

We don't need to call it Communist or even Marxist. Those words are loaded with negative connotations. Perhaps we can look at it from the perspective of a Common Humanity? The Unfolding Art-form of Our Common Humanity!

BTW: there is the traditional, hard, Armageddon-type apocalypse that the Fundamental X'tians believe in (and are trying to bring about). And there is the Mayan Apocalypse which is already happening all around us known in our contemporary Babylon as "Climatic Changes". They are a bit more than that. They are the Earth Changes that the Native American Indians have been prophesying since time immemorial. They're part of the Mayan Calendar.  

--Last edited by greengorilla on 2008-05-28 01:48:15 --

With those twelve stars this is surely an image worth meditating on
See what it reveals
This is the most open and revelatory Tarot that I have seen, much more so than the Waite or Crowley numbers. I hope he finishes it

Neil Hague has got it absolutely wrong about the symbolic meaning of the Twelve Stars. I have provided readers with the proof.

I am not a Roman Catholic. Nor do I agree with all that nonsense about a Mariannic Imperium in the article I link to above. The problem with the European Commission is precisely that it is behaving as if it were a second Roman Empire. But that is only because of the way the EU was set up with the nationally appointed Council of Ministers in power over all & a relatively toothless European Parliament.

But this is all another story.

How can you say, "With those twelve stars this is surely an image worth meditating on, See what it reveals." You know that people will see what they wish to see according to their set views and prejudices.

The Twelve Stars are, I repeat a symbol of the Divine. They should be respected, even by those who do not share the same faith. Would you despoil a copy of the Quran? Or tread on a Book of the Diamond Sutras? Then why promote a false supersitition and deliberately confuse the Divine with the (badly illustrated) Profane?

Respect is a sign of civilised behaviour and disrespect quite the opposite. You don't have to agree with another in order to respect their views. And to suggest that the Twelve Stars are an aspect of satanism, I would maintain, is a sign of ignorance or gross disrespect.  

Quote :

but Satanists use these symbols in mockery of divinity.

I am grateful that at least one person on this Forum can see that. Thank you, OG, for that insight. We don't have to be fully paid-up members of this or that religion to understand the power of symbols. It is extremely dangerous to handle them thoughtlessly or carelessly, let alone with disrespect.  

--Last edited by greengorilla on 2008-05-28 06:44:24 --

Here is my recent correspondence on this subject with Neil Hague:

Dear Neil,

I have seen your website and your tarot cards. While they are interesting I must point out that you appear to have made a serious error in using the European Flag as a sign of satanism. I would guess that you are not aware of the origins of the Twelve Golden Stars in that flag and that they are actually the same Twelve Stars found around the halo of Mother Mary (or as she is commonly known, the Virgin Mary).

Though not a Roman Catholic I am into researching symbology. So from that point-of-view I felt obliged to contact you about the misinterpretation you make with this powerful symbol. The original design for the EU flag was prepared by a French artist, Arsene Heitz, in Strasbourg as the article below explains:

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/226.marysstars.html

It seems that the Twelve Stars were taken from the Book of Revelation where the Woman of the Apocalypse was described as riding on the Beast with the Stars above her head. But she was riding on that Beast in order to dominate and control it! That is how St John of Patmos saw things in his vision. So the Twelve Stars are not only the Sign of The Divine but of the victory of the Divine over Evil (and perhaps of the Feminine [Intelligence] over the Masculine [Muscular) energies). That is the meaning and the power behind this symbol.

It is totally mistaken to interpret the Twelve Stars as satanic as you do in your card, The Devil. Certainly there may be some quite satanic characters trying to misuse and mock the Woman of the Apocalypse and Mother Mary but that was not the intention of the EU when its leaders adopted the symbol for their flag.

Symbols, as I'm sure you know, are very powerful things. Hence the need to respect them and to use them with the greatest care.

Best Wishes, Rory.

He replied,

Dear Rory,

Tahnkyou for your email. The tarot cards I am producing are like no other around, and they are not totally finished, especially the Major Arcana. Your email is intersesting, as I am fully aware of much of the symbolism relating to the EU and Revelation. I was under the impression that the symbol of the flag was attributed to a Belgian Jew called Paul Levi, a converted Roman Catholic who was Director of the Cultural Section of the European Council, established in London in 1949?  I am not a big fan of Europe, and what it is fast becoming!

I personally have found many corellations between Revelation and what has and could become a reality in the Middle East, sadly! The symbolism wasn't necessarily meant to be totally negative, It's all about personal interpretation, but obviously related to my artistic interpretation of revelation 12 (below)

Revelation 12 (King James Version)

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I feel that 3, 4 and 5 relate to much strife and suffering caused by what the EU will become if the 'Anti-Christ (not a word I like to use), engages in a war with the Red Dragon (not necessarily the Devil).. As for the 15 card in the Tarot, it doesn't in my view always carry a negative conotations, but it does relate to the Moon Worshippers, the symbol of Sin (Semarimis) and the lunar mysteries of Egypt, Babylon and later Rome. Hence the connection to the Virgin Moon Goddess and my subtle connection too. 15, also relates to public figures with magnetism, and if Revelation has any power of prediction (possibly a scrïpt being followed by the mystery schools that operate above all religion, politics, Banking, etc), I suspect that a charasmatic leader, "born" out of the Europa (the EU power base), could be wicked, as mentioned in the Psalms too." Ruling with an Iron Rod" is anything but good?

So my symbolic depiction may not appeal to some people, but it has a deeper meaning, through artistic license for others. Like I say they not definitive final images as yet, and I am always on the look out for other material that can influence the work

Many thanks for your response.

Yours Sincerely, Neil Hague.

And my reply,

Dear Neil,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. Your views are of great interest & I share with you concerns of what the EU could be turned into. I support the idea of a people's Europe while federated of a very decentralised nature allowing power to be shared between the states and the federation.

My concern led me to creating the blog below:

http://eurodemocrats.blogspot.com/

Yes, it is always possible for mischief-makers and those who wish good people ill to take signs, to misue and mock them and that is how I have interpreted your cards, ie that the earlier social-democratic policies have been taken over by Thatcherism masquerading as 'neo-liberalism' where everythin must be privatised. However, with the oncoming economic crisis there are some signs that governments will be forced to turn away from 'neo-liberalism' to increasing state-intervention, a sort of revived Keynesianism.

We are living during the time of the Earth Changes and planetary upheaval. All the more reason why those of us who, understanding the power of symbols, have a duty to protect those symbols from being abused and misused as Hitler did the swastika.

I know in Britain there is a lot of hostility towards the EU and I can understand why this is so. A lot of it is due to the undemocratic way the EU is presently constituted with too much power in the hands of the Ministers and the Commission and a Parliament that is toothless. Also, there is a certain arrogance amongst the Eurocrats who like to think of themselves as the creators of a second Roman Empire ... something that we can well do without.

All nations were born out of struggle and there is a crying need for a struggle for democracy within the EU. But where those such as I differ from the anti-EUers is that I choose to struggle from within, not to leave but to change the Union hopefully for the better.

Yes, there is always the danger of the kind of tryrant you refer to. All the more reason that the Europaean Parliament should be given sovereign powers. As for withdrawal I don't see much of a future down that road as we would either be swallowed up by the North American Free Trade Association (NAFTA)or struggle on as a police state ruled by the traditional ruling classes and a corrupt monarchy. Also, it is likely that the Scots will want more if not complete independence leading either to a separation between England and Scotland or a totally new arrangement (I favour the idea of a Commonwealth of Britain, Scotland, Wales and Ireland with Cornwall being allowed to decide for independence should it wish as four (or five) countries all part of a greater European Confederation including Turkey.

I do very much share your concerns about a future tyranny so, as a sexagenerian, am doing what I can to struggle to protect our freedoms.

The thing that concerns me about the way you depict the Twelve Stars is that most people who won't know their origins as you and I do will think, "Ah yes, there it is, the European Flag as the sign of satan!" I have already met inteligent folk who think this way. And that is for me a great sadness.

Some think that St John of Patmos had taken magic mushrooms when he had his visions of the apocalypse. It sounds to me very much as if was on some pretty powerful psychotropic substance! Whatever may be the case, these symbols have, as all symbols do, embedded themselves deep in the European, Christian psyche. Therefore to allow them to be misused or to be misrepresented is a very dangerous thing for us all. As an artist and a shaman I am sure you can understand my concerns.

Good Luck and Best Wishes, Rory.

He didn't reply ...  

Conclusion: from this correspondence you will see that the essence of his reply is that he is using artistic license. Now, to use artistic license to embroider reality is one thing. To use it to signify the very opposite of what a common symbol stands for is not only a misrepresentation but it is misleading.  

--Last edited by greengorilla on 2008-05-30 06:37:14 --

Sorry Rory, but Neils Devil tarot is spot on for me
He's summed up the present meaning in a moment
It isn't particularly religious or political but just how it is